Latest upshot regarding this debate was that the owner of Pagan

Wiccauk takes sides with Christo/Pagan interfaith missionaries and bans dissenters - without rhyme or reason!

Latest upshot regarding the controversial Wiccauk Christo/Pagan interfaith debate was that the owner of Pagan & Christian moot website (Cerne/Mike) sent a response to PAN/SAFF supporter, Mickyfin.

Mickyfin informs us that he was about to answer this (and what was possibly yet another personal threat from Jooles) only to discover that he had been banned by the sanctimonious mods (censors) running Wiccauk. PAN have been informed about Wiccauk's undemocratic actions before.

"Mickyfin and Maryloo, who both posted from the same IP addresses, have had their membership rights removed after proving themselves to be too irresponsible to have the right to post to internet forums such as this."

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Concerning the Wiccauk interfaith situation and the way that you banned my girlfriend and I.

I joined in your Wiccauk debate on interfaith thinking that it would be fair, educated, sincere and logically reasoned. I wanted to only explain how the missionaries were infiltrating our religion via pagan sites yet all I got was a ban off the self-centred Casparian Guy so I must have touched a raw nerve with him, or exposed his inadequacy in this situation or something like it. I just cannot believe such people - who do they think they are? Add to this the fact that I was 'threatened' by the worrying Jooles person on Wiccauk who obviously couldn't stand what I was saying. I posted this news up and it was apparently DELETED instantly - which shows just how you turkeys run this interfaith circus. Personally, I think that you are nothing more than closet xtians in disguise. That's why you killed of this debate (for me at least) which apparently must be one-sided and in total agreement with your pro-missionary interfaith policies. You people just don't get it that the fundies are manipulating you like this and that your intransigence and apathy is actually 'helping' to destroy the old faiths via your shallow actions.

The Guy, Cerne/Mike, from Christian & Pagan moot site came on giving the usual lame pseudo-Xtian excuses and even admitted that he allowed evangelism on his site. He was never challenged or criticised by any of the so-called Wiccans on this thread. No, I got the push instead so what does this tell us? I wonder if the same sort of thing happened when genuine pagans dared to criticise missionaries in the old days? Turn coats are the worse type of scum in my book. I agree with PAN and the guys at SAFF that interfaith with tolerant faiths is productive yet not with fundamentalists who always want to rule the roost. It's a great pity that this Mike fellow cannot see how he's being manipulated by Reachout etc.

Thanks go to PAN from me for at least giving me the right to reply unlike the fascistic-style dictators who cannot stand freedom-of-speech on their site. You do paganism no favours and are a complete joke!

After Mickyfin sent us news of Casparian's dictatorial ban he asked us to print the following response to Mike/Cerne (Christian & Pagan Moot site boss):

I write to you via PAN (who I support as you will have gathered) as the reverent dictators at Wiccauk have now banned me and thus robbed me of this choice.

You clearly are the type who just loves to enmesh yourself within altruistic rhetoric. I think you actually DO think you doing a good job for paganism - that's because you don't realise that you are is not a true pagan and are still in the thrall of Christianity.

You obviously believe that you are in some way doing 'good', by trafficking with arch fundies but it has all been done before - when it really mattered. The S.A.F.F. took apart Harper's book and factually undermined her work for Reachout during the SRAM hysteria of 1989 - 1990 a number of times. You have simply wasted your time. Reachout KNOW that they are feeding you disinformation - their strategy is to sucker in naïve people like yourself who just cannot believe Christians would be so counterfeit - BUT THEY ARE as you have just proved. I can just see Harris smiling wryly at you trying to do your best.

Can't you get it through to your brain the fact that there IS NO COMMON GROUND BETWEEN ABSOLUTIST MONOTHEISTS AND PANTHEISTS. Sure people can be nice or courteous without having to believe each other's cosmologies BUT THE FUNDAMENTALIST CHRISTIANS WON'T ALLOW THAT because they are intolerant absolutists. They require EVERYONE to be like them and if individuals refuse they will, ultimately, KILL you instead. This is not just a choice that some fundies make - IT IS PART OF THEIR HOLY WRIT (or at least the extreme bits of it which they foster) .

These facts are self-evident from the history of the Craft right up to and including NOW. Don't you know your own history? Don't you think it applies today TO YOU? Why do you think you are exempt? For thousands of years these evil fundamentalists have viciously victimised and oppressed pagans and anyone else who does not adhere to their version of Holy Writ. THEY ARE ONLY BEING NICE TO YOU BECAUSE THEY WANT TO MANIPULATE YOUR SOUL. That's the bottom line.

They have no intention of finding a half-way house or indeed allowing paganism to flourish in any way whatsoever. They require the complete destruction of Paganism. How many times does a pagan need to be crapped on before he realises he's been crapped on?

Don't try to persuade me that these people will actually LISTEN to what you have to say if you speak to them nicely. Your own experience with Reachout shows that's not true. And if you don't speak to them nicely (that is, if you resist) they will do a job on you like they did on the Sorcerer's Apprentice and other occult businesses. They have only just stopped killing each other in Northern Ireland for the gods' sake.

Your problem, Mike, is that you are a closet Christian. You have been indoctrinated with Christianity when young and your whole thinking process is in the thrall of their reality. Your value set and your associations are entirely Christian at root and your wife being Christian will always make you vulnerable to that - hence you simply cannot see that the Christianity you 'know' is the danger to Paganism that it really is.

This head-in-the-sand attitude is a modern phenomenon created over the past twenty years since the invention of Wicca. Neo-paganism has been taken over by pseudo-Catholics who do not really understand what paganism is and who in the old days would never have been allowed to be initiated into the Craft until their old monotheist Christian biased mind-set had been overcome. These may appear to be harsh words to you but they are the truth and if they disturb you that is a measure of how far you are away from it.

You have been very honest in your reply and that demands the same level of honesty from me - whether you find it palatable or not. You did not fall into the usual excuse/justification of demonising me, or the SAFF or PAN or anyone else on the thread who disagreed. You actually tried to persuade us all, just like you tried to persuade Harris and Reachout. They allowed you to think you had succeeded and then pulled the rug when they had exhausted your goodwill. I am a pagan and do not adopt those tactics. I tell you exactly what I truly think.

The usual response to the Truth of the current pagan predicament is to go into a state of denial but what you should really be doing is writing to the SAFF and asking for a list of the research and publications which they produced over a decade ago as there's no point in you trying to re-invent the wheel is there?

The only reason why you are duplicating work and allowing the fundies to get a foothold within paganism in the process is precisely because of the stupid interfaith strategy adopted during those 10 years by the PF - and their controversial work in this area is the original reason why this thread began.

Do you know why Harper/Reachout will never withdraw that stupid book of hers'? Well I got in touch with the SAFF and their research library told me that when fundamentalist moppet Doreen Irvine wrote her appalling book From Satan To Christ in the mid 1970s she made so much money out of the Christian Pound that she blithely donated Fifty Thousand Pounds (50,000.00!) to the fundie group she was involved with.

We checked out these Wiccauk threads and especially Casparian's somewhat strange allegation of Mickyfin being "too irresponsible ". There appears to be no possible foundation in this unwarranted claim whatsoever, which leads us to agree with Mickfin's accurate appraisal of the situation.

We note that the thread in question is still being used by the Christo/Pagan interfaith lobby but alas, Mickyfin will NOT be permitted to join in the so-called debate.

So there it is folks - Pagans who have seen how clever Xtian missionaries are getting their feet under the pagan table have sought to alert others ......

AND FOR THEIR TROUBLES THEY ARE OSTRACISED BY FOOLS WHO CANNOT SEE SPIRITUAL WOOD FOR EVANGELICAL TREES.

1 Wiccauk will not permit any 'Heresy' from their blinkered PF-style, Christo/Pagan interfaith policies.

2. Any person who challenges their policy will be eventually removed without rhyme, reason or fair right to reply.

3. Wiccauk will apparently permit personal threats against any person that challenges their pro-missionary, interfaith stance on interfaith.

4. Attacks on PAN & SAFF are apparently freely permitted on Wiccauk site because these anti-defamation groups oppose their Christo/Pagan (Christian Witch) interfaith policies.

5. Plastic Pagan attacks on PAN/SAFF by the Christo/Pagan interfaith lobby clearly prove how inadequate these pro-evangelical activists really are.

PAN realises that the vast majority of Christians are not fundamentalist or evangelical in make up and we only criticise religious extremists who seek to disenfranchise other faiths whilst bolstering their own. PAN does not in any way condone violence against any persons or property and we must state that we have always worked towards a more tolerant and equal society.