THE COSTELLO SHOW

A transcript by Robin Deacon and Laurence Harvey

This text was originally published in UNCUT magazine, June 1997 in the article 'Armed Forces' by Allan Jones. The text in red is the questions put by journalists during the press conference. These were pre-recorded by Laurence (in a variety of unconvincing American accents) and played back using a cassette recorder operated alternately by the two performers.

Robin: I never…ever…thought I would be in this position. It seems necessary for me to come here today to make just one statement, which is that I am not a racist. Now in Wednesday's 'Village Voice', I believe it was, there was a report of an incident that occurred in Columbus, Ohio…an argument or a brawl, or whatever you want to call it…between me and another artist. And the details of it were somewhat confused, understandably, and I was misquoted out of context in it. I don't really want to get into a trivial feud with another act, but I think it's necessary to point out in what context these remarks, which, although they weren't strictly correctly reported, were made. In the course of an argument, it became necessary for me to OUTRAGE these people with about the most obnoxious and OFFENSIVE remarks that I could muster to bring the argument to a swift conclusion and rid myself of their presence. It worked pretty good. It started a fight. And that was the main thing and it was at that point that I did say some of those things which, quoted out of context, appear REALLY offensive towards the people, you know, whose names I was taking, I suppose you might say, in vain. These people now seem to have chosen to seek publicity at my expense by making it a gossip item. And now it's getting understandably confused and I expect it will get misquoted even further out of context as time goes on. And it worries me that people are gonna pick up on the words that I have said and presume that is my opinion. It was in the context of an argument that I used certain words, and that is NOT my opinion and THAT'S what I've come here to say today. I mean as I've said before, I don't want to get into a trivial feud with other acts. At the same time…I AM SURE…that if any of the artists who were mentioned in 'The Voice' ever read about this, they might wonder what the hell was going on, because I'm sure everybody shares the same high esteem towards James Brown and Ray Charles and anybody else that might be added to that list, which I am sure there will be as it gets more and more out of hand. Really, I've just come here to kill the issue stone dead NOW, and say that I'm not a racist, and if anybody wants to ask any questions or wants me to clarify it any further…

Voice 1: Mr Costello! MR COSTELLO!

Laurence: Hang on, Hang on…

Voice 1: Can you be a little bit more specific about the circumstances that made it necessary for you to say something so outrageous?

Robin: Yeah…I'm sure…yeah, I'm sure that everybody's had occasion to go to ABSOLUTE EXTREMES…in order to, you know, even to say things that you don't believe, you know. Ask Lenny Bruce.

Voice 1: Mister Costello! I haven't heard the album Armed Forces, but according to the Soho News and the music review there, they're talking about your album Armed Forces, and you refer to 'Checkpoint Charlie', 'itchy triggers', 'white niggers', 'Palestine', 'Johannesburg', 'darkies'. Things like that. Is that in your record?

Laurence: Yeah. But in the context of the lyrics…once again, those words have been taken totally out of context. That's what I'm SAYING…if you use emotive words in a song or in a conversation, if you're then quoted out of context, it can make you look like anything from an angel to…you know…Adolph Hitler!!

Voice 1: But then you have a history of saying this. if you say it on a record, it just comes out naturally.

Robin: Yeah, but it doesn't make ME offensive.

Voice 1: But you have said it on a record?

Laurence: Yeah

Voice 1: I haven't heard Armed Forces.

Robin: What's your point?

Voice 1: I said you have a history. This isn't something that just came up. You have a history of referring to 'nigger' and 'Johannesburg darkies'.

Laurence: I have a history of referring to lots of things. I think that's irrelevant.

Voice 1: That's all I wanted to know.

Voice 2: So far, you've said that you've been quoted out of context. You have not yet told us what the context is.

Robin:It was basically just to make them MAD. I chose the one thing that I thought would be the most offensive thing I could say to them.

Voice 2: What happened?

Laurence: WHAT?!

Voice 2: What happened to cause a fight?

Robin: Basically, it WORKED. I just wanted to get rid of them.

Voice 2: What happened to cause a fight? What caused the argument?

Laurence: The argument…was just being drunk in a bar with a bunch of people.

Voice 2: Were you drunk?

Robin: We all were…had…were drinking.

Voice 3: I talked to Bonnie Bramlett who does not drink, and she said that basically, everything that has been reported was true.

Laurence: Well, I dispute that.

Voice 3: Well that's what she told me!

Robin: Well I dispute that.

Voice 2: I have not yet finished with my question. I still would like to know what was said, why, and to whom. Because you're asking us to discredit or not to pay any attention to something that was in The Voice, and that's fine, but I would like to see the other side of it so I can make a valid decision.

Laurence: I don't quite understand what you mean. What I'm saying is, I made remarks…if they'd been ART fans, if I'd said Toulouse Lautrec was a DWARF, you know, just to PISS THEM OFF…do you understand me now? Am I making myself clear enough?

Voice 2: No, you're not.

Robin: Well, I'm sorry, I can't make it much clearer than that.

Voice 4: How is that word (nigger) used, if not to piss people off? What would be a legitimate context to use that word?

Laurence: I don't think it HAS a legitimate context. That's the whole point.

Voice 4: But isn't that what you're claiming? That the context makes it legitimate?

Robin: No…no…I'm not going to argue semantics with you.

Voice 4: Isn't it a racist word whenever it's used?

Laurence: Uh…no.

Voice 4: Haven't you made racist remarks?

Robin: No, I'd dispute that.

Voice 5: What made you so angry that night?

Laurence: Well, there's plenty of things that make me angry about America.

Voice 5: But that particular night?

Robin: IT WAS JUST IN THE COURSE OF A CONVERSATION.

Voice 5: Could you have just got up and left?

Robin: I suppose you can always get up and leave, but THEY didn't leave…and when you're involved in an argument… I never expected that they would start talking to the press and making a big deal out of it. It was an argument between THEM and ME. They are the ones who have chosen to make an incident out of it.

Voice 6: What was the original argument about?

Laurence: I suppose we were just talking about conflicting opinions, about music and about the way we work, usual bar room talk, you know. I'm not saying it was a profound conversation. That's why I'm saying that it's all so ridiculous that YOU'RE all here, and I'M answering questions about this thing. Which was basically just a conversation that went on in a bar in Columbus, Ohio. I can't think of anything more ludicrous.

Voice 6: Do you have a low view of Americans?

Robin: NO, I have American friends…I don't have an overall low view of Americans. There's a lot wrong with America, there's a lot wrong with England. There's an awful lot wrong with the world!

Voice 6: Could you give us a couple of specifics?

Laurence: NO! Because I'm not here to criticise America. I've come here to explain these things because its getting OUT OF HAND…

Voice 7: There's a quote here saying 'We hate you' referring to Americans. 'We just come here for the money'. Now is that TRUE?

Robin: It can be true one minute and not true the next, can't it?

Voice 7: I don't know. CAN IT?

Laurence: Well, yeah, it can.

Voice 7: In what respect? When do you hate Americans, and when don't you?

Robin: When I'm made to feel that I'm only here for the money. Some days you feel great, others you don't.

Voice 8: If you wanted to make somebody mad, couldn't you find some other way besides insulting artists like James Brown or Ray Charles?

Laurence: I just TOLD you, at the height of the argument, I picked the most offensive thing I could think of to say to them.

Voice 8: Wouldn't that be offensive to you too, if you heard somebody say that?

Robin: PLENTY of horrible stuff is written about me, the same as it is about everybody else. I'm sure much worse has been said about people like that, and much more seriously. I mean, I've seen films of people talking about 'nigger' music, and all that. And those people in the 50's, in Alabama, they MEANT it.

Voice 9: What would you say to Americans to make amends for what you said?

Laurence: I'm not TRYING to make amends, I'm not MAKING amends. I'm not apologising to ANYBODY, other than somebody who might misunderstand the context of what I said. I'm interested in clarifying it. It's a personal statement: I AM NOT A RACIST.

Voice 9: And you're not apologising?

Robin: As I'M NOT a racist, why do I have to apologise?

Voice 10: What would you say in order to change the image that has been created?

Laurence: Well, I would have thought that's up to you now. It's how YOU write it up now. It's whether you think I'm telling the truth or not, that I said these things purely for effect on that person…if I'd called the press conference now and said, "Look, all those things are in 'The Voice'", and I'd said, "Look, this is what I want to say about black people today…" and then read that out, THEN I'd be racist. Because then I'd have called you all in here specifically to say that's what I wanted to say to you…"

Voice 11: What is the purpose of this conference? Are you just covering your behind?

Robin: LISTEN, I don't really care all that much now. I can leave RIGHT NOW.

Voice 11: I'm just asking the purpose of this news conference. Why did you call it? Are you apologising?

Laurence: I don't want people out there, hearing things third-hand from friends, misquoted EVEN FURTHER OUT OF CONTEXT.

Voice 11: You weren't available for comment. We tried for hours to reach you.

Robin: Can you just SHUT UP a second, while I answer this?

Voice 11: We tried for hours to reach you. You were unavailable for comment!

Laurence: I'M ON TOUR!

Voice 11: You were not. You were in a place in Vermont. We were not given your number. We tried endlessly to reach you for comment.

Robin: NO, I DID NOT!

Voice 11: Your entourage made you unavailable.

Laurence: Well…that's not my responsibility.

Voice 11: Nothing evidently ever is.

Voice 12: The quotations in The Voice are in essence accurate, but taken out of context. Is that true?

Robin: Certainly…uh, well…not VERBATIM…cos there's bits all chopped out of it. I mean that you don't remember, you know…

Voice 12: That's all Ray Charles is...a blind ignorant nigger. You did say that. Either in context or out of context.

Laurence: I've no idea whether I said those EXACT words…like I said, I tried to pick the most offensive thing I could think of to say to them…

Voice 13: Do you believe in the saying that a drunken mind reveals what a sober mind conceals?

Laurence: No…no, I don't, but that was a good try.

Voice 14: Even if one accepted your explanation, which I'm in some ways inclined to do, one is left with the notion of the intensity of the hostility in this thing, and your anger. and throughout your career, there have be innumerable reports of hostility. If that is true...to some extent true...does it bother you about yourself, your own self image, that there is so much anger?

Robin: Well, no, because the press are not infallible, and nor am I. So I understand there's a certain amount of misinterpretation…that's why…I mean, anybody here - I don't honestly know you all by name, I know some of your faces - but anybody in the press, at least here, pretty much knows our history is one of pretty much NOT talking to you, for very good reasons. You must understand that it seems important enough for me to want to come here myself and not make a press statement that could be misinterpreted again. That's why I'm here so you can ask me questions about it.

Voice 14: That's not what I'm talking about.

Laurence: It IS the point, because any hostility towards the press has usually been because of misunderstandings or misinterpretations of things I've said. Or doing interviews and then getting them in print and it not being anything I've said.

Voice 12: It seems there's a misunderstanding here that maybe could be clarified. What you don't seem to understand is that by saying 'I'm not a racist' you're not going to convince many people in this room, especially the black people, that you are not a racist. That is not what constitutes not being a racist. But it does seem to me that, although you don't want to apologise, because that's not your style.

Robin: No, no…no, you're missing the point, man, YOU'RE MISSING THE POINT…

Voice 12: Ok, let me finish. You have in fact said that you do not believe the things you were quoted as saying, even though you did say them. Is that right?

Laurence: YEAHHH! HOW MANY TIMES HAVE I GOT TO SAY THIS?

Voice 12: Well you never did actually come out and say that.

Robin: OK, well…I'm saying it NOW. All right? Have you got it down now? HAVE YOU? I DIDN'T say those things because they are my beliefs. How much CLEARER can I make it? I said them for the effect of those words on the people I said them to. It's not a statement to the world in general. Who CARES what I think, you know? It's only when people get offended by it being written in the press, when it was only intended to offend somebody in a bar.

Voice 15: I was called down here today to find out your side of the story. You called this press conference obviously to explain what your intentions were...even if it was out of context, no matter what you say it was about, it's still out of context to me personally, because I wasn't there...maybe it's trivial to describe the circumstances, but maybe you have to. Because I have to understand exactly what you meant when you said those things, so I can believe you.

Laurence: WHAT DO YOU WANT ME TO DO?! Recite the conversation as far as I can remember it?

Voice 16: That would do it!

Robin: THAT would make it alright for you? Well, I'm sorry, I can't remember EVERY SINGLE WORD. I TOLD YOU what my point was, I AM NOT A RACIST. It's not to apologise. I'm not afraid of using that word 'apologise' to Ray Charles or James Brown. To anybody that might read what I said and presume that was my opinion of them. Because it AIN'T THE TRUTH. And to anybody that has got unnecessarily wound up, anybody that's kicked in the TV or burned their copy of 'The Village Voice' in anger, it's UNNECESSARY. Because it ain't the truth. And that's all I'm gonna say.

END